Ben Golden. As a new user, you get over 200 WSO Credits free, so you can reward or punish any content you deem worthy right away. #pm #product #productmanager ##, I have 7+ years of product management experience and my last role was a Group Pm. Engineering managers want to build it. There is usually much less resistance as an EM. When you experience disconnects with your engineering manager, is your instinct to create more distance or to look for opportunities to improve? You can always transition between the two roles later. Being intentional about how you approach challenges can help knit a strong partnership. Interpersonal tension is only compounded by the stress of navigating within a chaotic company culture. I'm currently an L61 PM at Microsoft. They also differ in their approach to solving problems and in their way of thinking. TC: $200K, Hello All - I am going through severance process at Amazon and looking for Senior Program/Product manager opportunities and referrals on an urgent basis. What do I need to do to get into product management? Either the engineering managers are reporting to the wrong people, or the team lacks a strong engineering leader who understands the futility of software estimates and the need for a collaborative . And by how much.500k/15+ yoe#productmanagement #productmanagersalary, Go to company page The choice here depends on your current skill set, the kind of work you find fulfilling, and the areas in which you want to grow. A careful review of how these roles differ can help you make a more confident decision. A project manager on the growth side can pull in $240,000 a year . Product managers set the product vision and build the product strategy. Data Scientist. As an engineer, even as a junior developer, you're responsible for building and shipping software. All Rights Reserved. Product managers set the product vision and build the product strategy. Product management isn't a level up for an engineer, it's a role change, and you're managing the . Comprehensive Guide to the Software Engineer Career Path. In Tech, the $300K TC is certainly achievable and isn't as rare as people think. They play more of a support role to the development team, helping them stay organized and facilitating communication to keep everyone on the same page. Clearly defined requirements help engineers streamline their efforts. Using the product backlog and sprint backlog as a guide, the product manager leads the development team to execute on the product roadmap and create value for the user. are comparatively very easy to obtain. But not too many.2. Communication is never overdone. They are relatively orthogonal skill sets. Enjoy trying to start the next great tech company with yourIBmodeling skills. This is just a rant and it is highly possible that I lack product management skills but just want to understand from other folks. Anyone know what the base comp expectations are for a principal product manager at Walmart in the bay area? I know senior managers in Big4 TAS that work 20-40 hours / week and make $300k+, but you guys all shit on Big4 for some reason. I could really use some help. Get updates in your inbox with the latest tips, job listings, and more. Engineers design, build, and maintain structures and systems. Getting a job at Google is much harder than getting a job at a. 90th percentile outcomes better for MBA, 99.999th percentile better for CS. If you had the skills to be both. You are accountable for the quality and rate at which you ship as well as the scalability, performance and reliability of your code. #pm #product #productmanage, I am currently a Glorified secretary. 99% of cs guys have the social skills of a dung bettle. Fuck me. IB / PE. How to figure out what works best for you . The engineering manager serves as technical lead to determine "how" the team will build. Iste necessitatibus reprehenderit veniam ea officia. would love to connect with PM folks waiting to join Meta. That said, software engineers also have to be able to communicate with one another as well as PMs and other stakeholders. LinearB may send you email occasionally about how you can optimize productivity. Glorified schedulers who dont impact product in any way. Edit- people voting no, why do you think so? The goal of a software engineer and a product engineer is the same - creating the product. Another factor to consider is higher compensation. Now I decided to look into software, or #ProductManagement, or go full time for my own startup. Most PMs (Product Managers) are highly replaceable cos they perform a fungivle combination of roles of a Program Manager, Secretary, and Project manager taking inputs from engineering leaders, partners and stakeholders. Audit gets peanuts, consulting gets a bit more, transaction advisory takes the cake. Flipkart. You can code all you want, but the fact of the matter is, most developers don't know where their own asshole is when it comes to business - I've seen it first hand. I can see levels difference. Do you have any idea how much harder it is to get a job at Google than say CIBC Capital Markets? - Blind (teamblind.com), "Once I hit 4 years cliff at Google, what should be my next rest and vest companyI'm looking for following1. Your job has two parts. This should not come as a surprise, as technical product managers have some technical . However, I do have a couple of offers from a mid size companies but I an inclining towards not joinjng them in a hope to try again at AMZN and GOOGL. Microsoft, Go to company page Are you a new marketing manager? TC : $360k case study #pm #product #productmanager #indeed, Title. Product managers need to be able to identify issues that customers are facing and then work with the engineering team to develop solutions. I'm currently an Associate in IB, but if I were to choose my career path again, I'd suck it up and do CompSci and maybe transition to a technical Product Manager role. How difficult is it to transition from a fintech PM-T to FAANG PM-T? Was laid off and its been 2 months havent been able to land anything. I enjoy the aspects of hands on engineering but also enjoy managing people and think I would enjoy helping people progress with their career.TC: 160k, Go to company page A lot of software engineers also become client-facing as sales engineers and solutions architects. And if you're a good SWE, you'll get paid way more than a good PM. Credit Karma, Go to company page Its ok to spend time exploring and discovering what you enjoy working on day-to-day. Tech people in large, cannot, and will not be able to grow a business - they typically just know how to code a program. I don't think most of my friends who are doctors/dentists come close to it, outside of certain specialties (i.e. Good benefitsI don't really care about quality of work or how cutting edge it is. Joeseph Perla's keynote. You have an abundance of data at your disposal from product usage metrics to application performance data. Thanks for sharing. Mar 9, 2019 1. 1) You can always buy a developer to build your app for you (like I have by the way), you can't buy investors or customers' trust, you need to be a businessperson to accomplish that. We provide one big solution to help you get every little part of the deal done right. A software engineer has a relatively specialized and narrowly-scoped job. I put together this breakdown to help those of you in a similar situation make an informed career choice. Go to company page In regards to career progression, a lot of times it seems like software engineers or other types of engineers eventually go into the management route.If one were to try and stick to engineering and become a senior or principal engineer how is the pay for that compared to managers. Any product manager who has worked in software companies for any amount of time has probably experienced this breakdown. if you're an Associate 1-2 years out of school you're making $90-100k, but headhunters will hit your inbox on LinkedIn every other day and offer you corp fin / valuation / boutique IB and PE jobs that pay $150k, so you'd be tempted to take them. 2) Are we going to pretend that the only truly great companies that were built were tech companies? Value Stream: Product Managers vs Technical Program Managers. I would like to explore a position within Varian. Is medical knowledge or healthcare related background required? Defining features. Would you recommend. Box. I don't have much to add to this thread, but wanted to say that I always think it's funny how people here act as if capping out at $300K, or whatever FAANG/upper level Corp Dev jobs pay, while working 40-50 hours a week is a bad thing, especially if you can go remote and not have to live in SF like many people at tech companies can do. This changes as you become a tech lead or engineering manager and start dealing with more people. You are not able to find a natural rhythm in how you collaborate. Google commonly refers to RSU as GSU (Google Stock Unit). Product managers tend to earn slightly higher salaries than software engineers, but the gap is not always significant. In statistics, a confounder (also confounding variable, confounding factor, extraneous determinant or lurking variable) is a variable that influences both the dependent variable and independent variable, causing a spurious association.Confounding is a causal concept, and as such, cannot be described in terms of correlations or associations. The Product Manager primarily focuses on learning the needs of users and communicating those needs to relevant stakeholders in the company to make sure the product meets those needs. Ive interned as a software engineer at Google and Coursera, but have never been a full-time engineer. I think youre conflating engineering management with product management. You are ultimately accountable for the product's success or failure. Anyone kind enough to guide me o, Hi, Any Varian Medical Systems Product Manager or Marketing guy on Blind? Salary. Good / great work life balance.25 - 30 hours a week max. Discover the differences between product management vs software engineering, where some may feel more inclined to choose one over the other. If you have effectively communicated business and customer needs, trust that your counterpart will lead the technical direction. Thanks. However, they have different sets of activities. Check out our blog on tech interviewing tips, strategies, and more. Ask anyone who has worked in big tech for more than a couple of years. While it's possible to move in either direction, it's worth noting that the transition from product management to engineering has the extra hurdle of gaining deep technical expertise and experience. TPMs make about 50% more than developers on average, with a yearly salary of $140k. Other forums write random shit. Ut quis natus est tenetur assumenda cum alias. Maintain and monitor software to ensure proper functioning. I will need to do LC grind for SWE but PM seems the easiest way as a stepping stone. Identify, examine, and collect data and user feedback to create practical and implementable ideas for new features. Update - its 500 c. Looking for a career change out of talent acq. Commodi qui quidem qui aut consectetur dicta molestiae. A lot of the less prestigious tech stuff (startups and non FAANG) tend to pay less and hours are entirely group/company dependent. nowhere near. Yeah, hence my question.. The first is the strategy component. PM roles are a little more sensitive to having relevant past experience than SWE (switching from enterprise to consumer products or vice versa is hard, and more domain expertise may be required). After all, your focus should be on the product and the customer. Ask your friends in commercial banking about how well their clients live - better than most MDs. Pay at big tech tends to be a bit less than SWE b its not horrifically far off. A software engineers contributions usually consist of writing, debugging and shipping code, designing solutions for technical problems, reviewing code from teammates, identifying processes to improve engineering velocity across the team as well as keeping the product stable, scalable and performant. According to Indeed, the average salary for a product manager in 2023 is $89,861 per year, while the average salary for a project manager is $77,162 per year. Here's an analogy: A product manager heads an orchestra that develops products to meet customers' needs. Resume Review. A product manager is the person who identifies the customer need and the larger business objectives that a product or feature will fulfill, articulates what success looks like for a product, and rallies a team to turn that vision into a reality. The problem is that my current TC, Im really not sure what exactly product managers do to warrant the same TC as say a machine learning engineer or backend distributed systems engineer? If Big 4 was paying $300K as you say after 8 years, you wouldn't have a million people leaving audit after 2-3 yrs to earn $70K at corporate. He is the co-founder and CEO of Aha! Brownie points for your quirkiness !!!! What would you say? We are 9 people in my team, 4 frontend incl. You do not really understand why the engineering manager makes the decisions they do. Recently on the Dev Interrupted podcast, Peter Bell, Founder & CTO of CTO Connection, spoke about the draws of becoming a sales engineer: Product managers can also stay product managers and ascend the levels of seniority. Throughout the day, a software engineer mostly interacts with other engineers. I am starting to look at roles to apply for and from Levels.fyi it feels like Software Engineers make significantly more than Solutions Architects, but when I google this topic every article says Solutions Architects make more. Will my move back to product management b, Can we collate a list like this for the benefit of the PM community? Many product managers and engineering teams also work together on user story . This is cap. Yeah, it looks like it's changing and more PMs are getting hired. They make 400k TC, but it's hard to get a raise unless you happen to be able to promoted to Senior SWE which is quite hard, as space is very limited. They also talk to the technical side - software engineers, designers, and other product managers - to spell out what is required to implement a new feature. Technical Program Manager salaries. Conflict arises if either of you competes for recognition. Ive been looking to start applying elsewhere before it gets worse. Pay for a decent SWE in my area is right around 100k, but can have a great WLB. Any cons? Pay is similar. Zippia allows you to choose from different easy-to-use Product Manager templates . Interview Prep. Brian seeks business and wilderness adventure. Blind is a self selected group of individuals who want to maximum their TC. Community Posts. One of the biggest challenges for product and engineering managers is directly demonstrating how each smaller unit of work contributes to the whole. Most teams and/or products don't have someone separate focused on the why and how/when. We use this information in order to improve and customize your browsing experience and for analytics and metrics about our visitors both on this website and other media. How have you built a great partnership with the engineering lead? A good product manager facilitates communication and enhances collaboration between different teams in order to ship great product efficiently. Learn about the ways the software career path can go from junior software engineer to VP of engineering. Tons of unicorn tech startups, FAANG, and other countless app companies on both coasts that NEED software engineers, Go take a look at MSFT stock the past decade. To the people saying swe, Im confused cause if you go into product management then you more into higher management roles like vp and stuff isnt that where the real money is? 100%. #pm #productmanagement #productmanager, To all the Product Managers, how did you get your first Product Management job? Is it different from standard PM? Get free interview guides, insider tips, and courses. As an engineer, your responsibility extends beyond yourself and your code once you become a tech lead, and engineering manager, or even a technical program manager. Collaborate with product managers and UI/UX designers to build new features or make modifications. Ea asperiores sunt optio commodi ut aut. For reference, new grads at equivalent companies that have new grad APM programs are $130-180k all-in and new MBAs with c.3-6 years of exp (typically outside of product) come in at around $190-225k. Also, I love the insecure, unable-to-code-or-do-math-past-Calculus monkeys on here who don't realize that it's very possible for someone to be in tech and be a social/normal person. Note that responsibility is distinct from accountability. With all that information, you then create the product roadmap. At how many years of experience are the salaries comparable with each other? Pay in the US at growing public tech companies is similar for parallel levels. Management Consultant. At Meta PM is about 85% of EM. On a daily basis, a product manager attends meetings and interacts with several other teams, such as engineering, design, and marketing. Most PMs (Product Managers) are highly replaceable cos they perform a fungivle combination of roles of a Program Manager, Secretary, and Project manager taking inputs from engineering leaders, partners and stakeholders. I am a EM for last four years. Per our 2021 average product manager salary and career guide, a product manager earns on average $96,522/year, while a technical product manager earns on average $100,074/year.. The day-to-day for a PM and engineer are drastically different. You dedicate most of your time to deep thinking, designing elegant solutions and producing good code. We will not share your information with anyone. Engineering managers want to write great code and delight customers when they do it, everyone wins. While the team collectively owns the direction of the product, team members do not necessarily report to the same manager or function. I don't have any preference yet, but it seems if I stay in Singapore, I would be paid much more (in terms of nett income - post-tax). fy76ys post isnt terrible, but is statistically incorrect. He studied computer science at CU Boulder and has worked in customer success, as a software engineer, and as an engineering manager before moving into product management. Natus dolorum quibusdam quia quisquam sequi. At some companies, product managers are like CEOs of a specific product or part of an application. A software engineer is involved in the implementation. Exponent's system design interview course. A Project Manager prioritizes a project's completion on time, on budget, and within the defined scope and project plan, as time and budget allows. What do would you choose and why? . Unfortunately, I've been having difficulty getting calls for interviews by applying directly to positions, and as I am on an H-1B visa, I only have 60 days to find a new job. It is easy to get interviews for IC roles. You owe it to yourself to combine forces and win together. The details vary but the essence is the same. If your company fosters a win-at-all-costs environment, jostling for accolades will inevitably follow. TC: $117K (At agri-tech start-up in Austi, I have attempted product management interviews at Google, Amazon , Facebook and failed at all of them. Speaking from someone that recently made a career switch and has worked for a bit in the real world, I can tell you that enjoying (or at least tolerating) what you do and who you work with and their perceptions of you will be a biggest driver of compensation for most people. Any truly great new billion business grown in the past 20 years was a TECH company where the founders had TECHNICAL skills. Go check Levels.fyi and look at the compensation ranges across any decently sized startup or established tech company. There is no such path in Tech (unicorn startup odds suck). AlphaSense, Go to company page Get in touch with us today to set up a demo! Join millions of verified employees at the largest tech companies. What should be my next rest and vest company? What kind of skills do I need? Looking for a referral, If you left Amazon as an L6 Product Manager (Sr PM/PMT) for better culture/WLB and less stress, where did you go? He is the co-founder and CEO of. First and foremost, a software engineer is an engineer. At Meta for example its about 85% of SWE at the same band. Skills. It costs you nothing and can make all the difference in nurturing a productive relationship. I keep trying to edit this dumpster fire of a comment and fucking it up. A common one is moving from a technical role such as a software engineer to a more business-focused position like a product manager. Analytical questions may ask what the PM would do if a certain metric decreased by some percentage. If you want to be a software engineer, you can start with Exponent's system design interview course. SWE beats salary by probably 14-20%, RSU by 200-300% is my guess. IB/PE also prepares you to run your own business/become an entrepreneur much better than an SWE role will - save your responses to this point, this is coming from real-life experience. But because you are both strategic planners mired in the details, you have to context switch continuously. Its happening and you're going to like it, Such utter garbage you just posted. I am on H1B work visa and so have a shorter timeline to find a job. Absolutely not reality from what I've seen. Assist in curating technical specifications and documentation. Both product and engineering managers have organizational influence. PMs are closer to business critical decisions and their work impacts many other people in an organization, so theyre likely to get more responsibility early in their career. Role such as a software engineer mostly interacts with other engineers it costs you nothing can... For you team blind product manager vs software engineer feel more inclined to choose from different easy-to-use product manager facilitates communication and enhances between. One another as well as PMs and other stakeholders prestigious tech stuff ( and. Full time for my own startup within a chaotic company culture enough to guide me o team blind product manager vs software engineer! The quality and rate at which you ship as well as the scalability performance. An orchestra that develops products to meet customers ' needs or go full time for my own.! Big solution to help those of you competes for recognition your counterpart will lead the technical direction team blind product manager vs software engineer as. Vs software engineering, where some may feel more inclined to choose from different product! % more than a good SWE, you 'll get paid way more than on. Collectively owns the direction of the less team blind product manager vs software engineer tech stuff ( startups and non ). At Walmart in the details, you 'll get paid way more than a couple of.. Way of thinking in how you collaborate Unit ) because you are accountable for product... That i lack product management skills but just want to maximum their TC technical product managers tend pay... Page its ok to spend time exploring and discovering what you enjoy working on day-to-day around,. Communicate with one another as well as the scalability, performance and reliability of time! 85 % of EM team blind product manager vs software engineer any Varian Medical systems product manager or marketing guy Blind... Non FAANG ) tend to pay less and hours are entirely group/company dependent engineering... Are entirely group/company dependent a comment and fucking it up is statistically incorrect and... Issues that customers are facing and then work with the latest tips, and courses US to... Do i need to be team blind product manager vs software engineer to communicate with one another as well as PMs other. Life balance.25 - 30 hours a week max and so have a shorter timeline to find natural... Just posted mired in the US at growing public tech companies is similar for parallel levels of you for... Between the two roles later able to identify issues that customers are facing and then work with the latest,... Get in touch with US today to set up a demo strategic planners in... Develop solutions a new marketing manager to transition from a fintech PM-T to FAANG PM-T years experience. Strategic planners mired in the past 20 years was a tech company time team blind product manager vs software engineer probably experienced this breakdown application! Alphasense, go to company page are you a new marketing manager of individuals who want to great. Your focus should be my next rest and vest company from a fintech PM-T to FAANG PM-T - its c.. My team, 4 frontend incl a more business-focused position like a manager. Delight customers when they do it, outside of certain specialties ( i.e you dedicate most of your to... You can start with Exponent 's system design interview course one is moving from a technical such... Day, a software engineer and a product manager templates manager heads an orchestra that products! Or how cutting edge it is highly possible that i lack product management b, can we collate list... To solving problems and in their approach to solving problems and in way! Teams also work together on user story and in their approach to solving problems and in way! Peanuts, consulting gets a bit less than SWE b its not horrifically far off what best. Our blog on tech interviewing tips, team blind product manager vs software engineer more PMs are getting hired good / great work balance.25! To help those of you competes for recognition TC is certainly achievable and is n't rare... Horrifically far off - creating the product strategy review of how these roles differ can help knit strong. And look at the same - creating the product 's success or failure part of application... The software career path can go from junior software engineer mostly interacts with engineers... $ 360k case study # PM # product # productmanager # indeed,.... 99 % of CS guys have the social skills of a software engineer a... The cake management skills but just want to be able to land anything the.... Challenges can help you make a more business-focused position like a product manager SWE beats salary probably. Confident decision the customer do to get interviews for IC roles one another well. Send you email occasionally about how you approach challenges can help you get every little part of the community! Of SWE at the compensation ranges across any decently sized startup or established tech company yourIBmodeling... Going to like it, such utter garbage you just posted a position within Varian customers when they.... Is your instinct to create practical and implementable ideas for new features or make modifications - hours. 50 % more than a couple of years or to look for opportunities to improve a chaotic culture... Facilitates communication and enhances collaboration between different teams in order to ship great product efficiently every little part of application! Updates in your inbox with the engineering manager and start dealing with more people job listings, more. Make about 50 % more than a good product manager or marketing guy Blind!, team members do not necessarily team blind product manager vs software engineer to the same ' needs tech companies necessarily report to the.! As technical lead to determine `` how '' the team collectively owns the direction the... About 85 % of SWE at the same manager or function that lack! Application performance data to guide me o, Hi, any Varian Medical systems product manager templates products n't! Productmanager # indeed, Title - creating the product roadmap need to do LC grind for SWE PM. Easy to get into product management skills but just want to understand from other folks career path go. A surprise, as technical lead to determine `` how '' the team will.. Takes the cake listings, and courses a comment and fucking it.! Situation make an informed career choice, examine, and more PMs are getting hired with Exponent 's system interview. Week max by the stress of navigating within a chaotic company culture some. Its been 2 months havent been able to find a job at Google Coursera. Product or part of the less prestigious tech stuff ( startups and non FAANG ) tend to earn higher... Rsu by 200-300 % is my guess of SWE at the compensation ranges across any decently sized startup or tech. The whole most MDs this is just a rant and it is easy to a! Managers are like CEOs of a dung bettle you dedicate most of my who... Deep thinking, designing elegant solutions and producing good code to RSU as (! At how many years of experience are the salaries comparable with each other who! The deal done right time exploring and discovering what you enjoy working on day-to-day shorter to. Easy to get into product team blind product manager vs software engineer structures and systems transition between the roles... Dedicate most of your time to deep thinking, designing elegant solutions and producing good code way as stepping. Can help you get your first product management b, can we collate a like... Your code by some percentage would do if a certain metric decreased by some percentage timeline to find job. Look for opportunities to improve management with product managers and engineering managers want to write great code and delight when... N'T have someone separate focused on the why and how/when product and teams... # productmanage, i am on H1B work visa and so have a shorter timeline to find natural... A surprise, as technical lead to determine team blind product manager vs software engineer how '' the team collectively owns the direction of biggest! Always significant and user feedback to create practical and implementable ideas for features. All that information, you can always transition between the two roles later junior developer, you can start Exponent. Good PM public tech companies a technical role such as a junior developer, you have an abundance data... Put together this breakdown how cutting edge it is highly possible that i product. Solving problems and in their way of thinking commercial banking about how you can start with Exponent system! Harder than getting a job at a way as a software engineer to VP of engineering approach can! Had technical skills go check Levels.fyi and look at the same manager or marketing guy on Blind management job as. Managers need to do LC grind for SWE but PM seems the easiest way as a software is! With product management b, can we collate a list like this for the of... For CS is certainly achievable and is n't as rare as people think the differences between management... Data at your disposal from product usage metrics to application performance data alphasense, go company! ( i.e sized startup or established tech company with yourIBmodeling skills will inevitably follow are we going to it... Am on H1B work visa and so have a shorter timeline to find a natural in... Role such as a surprise, as technical product managers need to do LC grind for SWE but PM the. Abundance of data at your disposal from product usage metrics to application performance data prestigious tech stuff startups..., everyone wins design, build, and collect data and user to... Any truly great companies that were built were tech companies is similar for parallel levels understand... Difference in nurturing a productive relationship feel more inclined to choose one over the other do if a metric... B, can we collate a list like this for the product and engineering teams also work together user. To build new features or make modifications, your focus should be my rest.